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Post by captbart on May 4, 2018 8:53:56 GMT -5
Just watched T6. Val's tigger control in this film was outstanding. She was firing semi-auto so fast I suspect most folks will think is was full auto but they were aimed shots and she HIT her target. Excellent work with her firearms and she asked the right questions about an unfamiliar weapon (sight setting, permission to change etc.). It seems to me that they had someone on staff who knew the difference between a clip and a magazine.
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Post by captbart on Nov 11, 2018 15:11:23 GMT -5
I have been watching the TV series again and Burt's wall in the weekly series just makes me very sad! All those empty spots; sigh, I shouldn't be better armed than Burt. It just isn't the natural order of things.
SPOILER ALERT: If you have not seen the series, please go watch the episodes before reading below.
Something I did notice here. In "Shriek and Destroy" Burt runs into a situation which prompts a discussion I often have with those who love 9mm. Their claim to fame is the double stack magazine and lots of rounds. His .50AE quickly runs dry and they are essentially disarmed. Same thing happened in T2 when all that is left is the Grizzly Big Bore and one round.
While in general, I discount the ammo count argument as a false comparison, there are times when more is better. This assumes, of course that the "more ammo" involved is of an adequate caliber. I absolutely prefer .45 to 9mm for personal defense but I would always prefer 7 rounds of 9mm left instead of 0 rounds of .45 left if there were still bad guys/critters around. I carry reloads, of course, but there are limits.
I guess it just goes to prove that Burt's truism is accurate; "You have to do what you can with what you have".
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Post by captbart on Dec 2, 2018 11:34:34 GMT -5
The Starz Encore channel has been running the Tremors movies again. The movies bring up an interesting point. While Burt complains that he doesn't have enough gun in T1 and that he has the wrong type of gun in T2 and no gun in T3 there is a lesson in T2 that is often missed. When Burt uses his Grizzly Big Bore to kill the Shrieker, he also blows away their exit vehicle. Using too much gun can be as disadvantageous as not using enough. Either way you can be in really big trouble. Choosing the right tool for the job is always a good idea in any endeavor but it is critical with firearms. Using a bear load in a condo will result in collateral damage that may well be catastrophic. Using a .22 against a bear will get you eaten! Every gun is a compromise but you will live longer is you study what you are about to do and choose your carry weapons accordingly.
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oc
New Egg
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Post by oc on Jan 6, 2019 21:59:11 GMT -5
Actually that scene from T2 has always ground my teeth: I do believe Burt, being Burt, should have asked: "Guys, anybody knows what's behind that wall?", and only having got some answer like "nothing of interest", he would blast the Shrieker (and the car they all forgot of). Far as I can recall the movie, at that moment there was no special hurry to shoot.
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Post by captbart on Jan 7, 2019 9:55:15 GMT -5
oc,
good point. Burt would know that wall was a sheet of paper to a .50 BMG round. a competent marksman knows what is behind his target before he launches a round down range. For the sake of the plot line, Burt makes some really silly, inconsistent moves in various movies. For example, in T3, the FIRST thing any survivalist would do when entering the basement would be to re-arm. Everyone is out of ammo and he doesn't even pick up a sidearm? Burt is much better than that! Of course if he re-arms the story plays out differently so I, grudgingly, ignore the lapse and enjoy the rest of the movie.
In Shriek and Destroy Burt says, "I told Twitch 1,000 rounds wouldn't be enough!". After having the wrong arms to go up against Shriekers in T2, Burt would not listen to ANYONE about how much ammo he needed. Also, while he would have his Desert AE, just in case, he also would have carried at least 2, maybe more, 9mm pistols and multiple reloads. Same reasoning I really, really got heartburn over Burt letting an unknown person provide his firearms in T5. While I loved watching him baby his Colt SSA, Burt would have told the 'Government Agent' that if he doesn't bring his own fire arms, he does not go.
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oc
New Egg
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Post by oc on Jan 7, 2019 11:06:08 GMT -5
Abso-bloomin'-lutely.
It's even one of the Jeff Cooper's maxims. No way Burt, whose gun handling and safety habits are usually impeccable, does not keep this in mind all the time.
And again quite right you are! Those blunders make T3 my least loved part of the franchise (well second least — but I do my best to forget T5 exists at all :)), despite really good moments it contains, too (like e.g., the lighter scene).
I guess I should watch the series again these days; have seen the thing long ago (and unlike the movies only once), and to be frank, at the moment I can't quite recall the scene.
Most probably so.
On the other hand, the script could find a decent way to force Burt to accept the conditions; I don't really recall how they persuaded him to go there (and I won't watch the thing again to check!), but one can envisage a number of pretty good reasons for him to accept the job even seriously underarmed.
And then he would make the very best with what he got, quite probably in some pretty creative way :)
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Post by captbart on Feb 17, 2019 14:43:44 GMT -5
OC, I do not know if you get the Outdoor Channel where you live but their webpage is www.outdoorchannel.com/show/hollywood-weapons/1560#They run a series called "Hollywood Weapons" where a retired Army Special Forces Master Sargent tests out many of the firearm related scenes from the movies. Capt Kirk fighting the Gorn and making a cannon for example or the "Quigley Down Under" two bad quys with one shot. There are some really amazing shots, some surprising results and many fascinating firearms. I don't know if you can watch them on-line. For me, they are worth my time.
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oc
New Egg
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Post by oc on Sept 30, 2022 12:19:54 GMT -5
Thanks! Looks like it should work in my browser, so I'll check the videos when I've got more time.
As for the mentioned examples... I've read (not seen) the Gorn fight long ago. Seemed to me rather improbable Kirk would be able to improvise the weapon given the resources, especially that he really could mix a workable black powder, but well, there are other reasons to love ST than its credibility :)
Quigley is a great movie, though I always found it a bit hard to believe that he would keep those excellent sixgun skills without training. But then, I guess he was just darn fast :)
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Post by captbart on Sept 30, 2022 16:04:26 GMT -5
oc, fast hands mean a lot but so does training. I get your point about the practice although even a rifleman in the old West would carry a belt gun if for no other reason than to shoot your own horse should you be thrown.
While black powder is indeed a mixture, to get a proper burn for any usable purpose that mixture has to be finely ground to the proper size for the use intended. Wrong size grain and the powder may still burn but not fast enough for firing. Secondly, if small enough to be effective will create enough pressure that I wouldn't want to trust the wooden cannon not to explode in my face.
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oc
New Egg
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Post by oc on Oct 1, 2022 16:11:18 GMT -5
As I noted elsewhere, I'm no expert with explosives, but I believe no simple mixture of charcoal and saltpeter with some firestarter (I can't recall whether they used a sulphur or something else in the ST) would reasonably work. Correct me please if I am wrong, but I understand you have to mix it wet, prepare grains of a reasonably uniform size — without a sieve that's rather a feat I'm afraid —, and dry them properly. That takes much more time Kirk had, far as I recall. Doing that all, you perhaps might shoot. Perhaps.
Otherwise I guess your best survival policy would be to prepare the cannon and give it to your oponent, for there's a quite good chance he would kill himself with the thing soon as he tries to use it :)
That the gun was made of wood I've completely forgot, and I wonder whether there's any wood (short of the brakka wood of the Land and Overland series :)) on any planet up to that.
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Post by captbart on Oct 1, 2022 18:32:41 GMT -5
oc, The wetting process is a way to make the saltpeter, IIRC. The usual way to create the mix and grain size is in a tumbler using lead balls to avoid sparks. The grain size determines the rate of burn setting either a rapid burn or an explosion. Different grains for different needs; faster burns for pistols and slower for long guns. That is the F, FF, FFF, and FFFF ratings on the black powder. Kirk "COULD" have made gunpowder from just sulfur and charcoal. The saltpeter is not, strictly speaking, required but it does make for better, smoother burning powder. Still, getting sufficiently pure chemicals, in the proper quantities and mixing them completely and in proper grain size seems like a great stretch that a star ship captain would have both the knowledge and skill to manage it all (even if the wooden gun doesn't blow up if he gets the powder correct ....... well, the Gorn wins!
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Post by captbart on Dec 3, 2022 16:27:13 GMT -5
Everyone who reads these knows I love Burt's gun wall - before he blows up his domicile. There is a recurring theme in all of the Tremors movies that I find vaguely troubling; at least to me. It all revolves around ammo and its supply. I respect Burt's skill as a survivalist but he makes some amazingly bad choices when it comes to ammo supply. T1 was a totally unique situation and no blame can be laid there. He adapted to the situation and overcame the adversity.
In T2, the Shriekers were new BUT there was no excuse for not having more than one slug of .50BMG on him. He never mentions to the others that they should be armed at all times. Their AR's would be effective against the Shriekers and he never mentions that. While he doesn't say, he implies that he only had one or, at most, a few magazines for his 9mm's. That is out of character. He also ASSUMES that has accounted for all of the Shiekers. A demonstrable error. He did have enough explosives in the truck for the job at hand :-) given the job of Grabboids but wasn't properly prepared for anything else.
In T3, he knows he's up against su er Shriekers, yet he doesn't reload once he's in his basement. Really bad move. T4 doesn't count because its Hiram not Burt and he learns from Black Hand Kelly and passes it down through the generations to Burt.
The series runs along the same vein.
My point is that to be a survivalist, you have to always be prepared for everything you know might happen. If you do that, then, when the black swan arrives, you'll be able to adapt and overcome. His wall served well in T1 but he didn't use it as well in the rest of the shows. I really like the wall in T1 as it has a good mix of modern and older weapons as well as long and short guns plus some shot guns.
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oc
New Egg
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Post by oc on Jan 4, 2023 20:37:54 GMT -5
In general, can't agree more, especially with the "always be prepared for everything you know might happen" part!
As for T1, I am not that sure though. In my personal opinion, Burt, being Burt, would keep at the time a .50 BMG rifle or two just for the fun — and also for the somewhat remote, but definitely non-zero possibility he just needs to stop a lightly armoured intruder from his rooftop before the enemy gets too close. Thus, he would not depend on an ancient elephant rifle (much as I liked the scene, me being a great fan of those big doubles!)
I'll need to check T2 again I guess (gladly will when I get some time, it's great fun, unlike the sequels). I can't at the moment quite recall how it happened Burt did end with the Grizzly without a reasonable ammo supply, not speaking of no gun more apt to dispose of a Shrieker. Nevertheless, I would not bet on ARs against Shriekers; the critters might be a bit too much at the tough side for that. 30-06, OK; 45-70, better, but .223? Not sure. Of course, always better to try than not :)
T3, well, far as I can recall, if that movie was renamed "A Bunch of Really Bad Decisions", it would be quite apt :( Sending the car out as they did at the beginning, really? Still better than the sequels, but just barely...
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Post by captbart on Jan 5, 2023 20:59:18 GMT -5
OC, I don't disagree but I wonder how common the .50BMG rifles were in 1990. If memory serves they first came out in the 1980's but were extremely expensive. The .50 BMG ammo had at best limited ammo. The double rifle he uses in the basement was among the best big bores available for large dangerous game. For the attacking Russians, there were other solutions that were legal and cheaper.
Note in T2, he uses the Grizzly Big Bore which is among the more affordable .50's out there. He doesn't get the Barrette until the series if I remember correctly and that is when they become more available.
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Post by captbart on May 21, 2023 9:45:55 GMT -5
In the series there are several episodes where Burt's indoor, under ground, range is in use. I assume that means Burt does know how to hit the target with his weapons, especially the 1/2 mile hit in the first series show. Burt uses a lot of automatic fire which is admittedly a lot of fun but not really very efficient in producing lethal hits on the target. My personal preference is more along the lines of .308 with rapid follow up as needed. I think, from experience in combat, that full auto is over rated and I prefer aimed, semi-auto fire. That plus a caliber like .308 (7.62 NATO)is a much better choice.
In "Shriek and Destroy" from the series, Burt appears to be using a 7.62 NATO (7.62X51) and it looks like Tyler is using an AK-47 (7.62X31) while the "professional" hunter is using a 9mm machine pistol. He is the one who is eaten! I suspect the poor judgement he showed in weapon/ammo selection was reflected in his horribly, fatally bad judgement of his prey. Given that this is a movie and the script writers set the tone, in this case they seemed spot on although I still wonder at Burt's choice of the Desert Eagle with no second magazine against Shriekers. The round is a good choice of course, especially since Burt learned in T2 that the 9mm wasn't really a good choice for these critters, but no reloads? Burt? Nope! I still wonder why Burt would have brought 9mm on a Graboid hunt in T2 in the first place. He KNEW it would not be any good against the worm (hence the Grizzly) so why did he have it? I'd think .44Mag or .45 Bear load (in either ACP or COLT) would be more appropriate for the circumstance since he KNEW from his basement what it took to kill a worm.
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