oc
New Egg
Posts: 45
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Post by oc on Jun 5, 2023 14:48:26 GMT -5
Capt,
Well I reckon' it goes in the family :) Well three- or five-round bursts actually might help occasionally. Otherwise though I'm no fan of FA either: essentially it's a waste of ammo. Absolutely. In general, even a most wonderful and miraculous stopper bullet does not help much if it misses :) This might somewhat depend on the task. Shriekers, yup, most probably a thirty would be best selection. If there might be a worm surviving, I'd consider some .45; I believe we have debated this some time ago: I really think even a Graboid would rather notice even a 45-70, not speaking of something more substantial like e.g., .458 Lott. While .50 BMG is fun to shoot and it has its undeniable charm, I believe it is an overkill even for the most sturdy worm. They are tough, but they are not that tough. (Reminds me of the Skull Island movie. Not entirely bad, but it's physically impossible that those lizards ignore the 50 gunfire like they do in there: nothing what has bones to support the body and bleeds ever could.) Anyway, a 50 BMG is nice if you got a deuce-and-a-half, why not (though I'd get a Barrett semi-auto myself if the Mexican authorities paid it :), not the Grizzly single-shot whose reload takes a small infinity); but sooner or later one usually needs to carry both the rifle and ammo, and with .50, both are darn heavy. I can't quite recall details of that ep. Wasn't the hunter written from the very beginning as sort of a dumb prick? Or do I mess it up with another ep (or perhaps even another series ;))? On the other hand, far as one could trust imfdb, looks like Burt himself took a Colt M654, 5.56×45 — not a great idea against Shriekers I'd say (well not a great idea agains anything much bigger than a coyote). One would think the script writers should know better, but after all, I understand at that time Stampede has already been rather cut out from the franchise. Again based on imfdb, it was actually rather a .50 AE DE. A pretty good backup for such a case, and I can understand a decision to take as much ammo for the primary weapons as reasonably possible, even at the price of not having much for the backup sidearm, which, after all, is not intended to be used at all, unless something goes far wrong. Especially against a foe which can multiply in a geometric progression like Shriekers do. (On the other hand, again I do not recall it too well, but hadn't they have too little ammo anyway, which is why they had to resort to those Springfields and blunderbusses eventually?) And while 50 AE definitely does its task, I would rather select something a bit smaller (but still with a punch strong enough), getting a higher capacity instead. E.g., a full-fledged 10mm Auto would seem pretty helpful against a Shrieker, would it not? I don't think he did, in a sense :) Would not do to bring the Berettas to a Graboid fight; but after all, essentially no sidearm would do (see below, too). Also seems strange to pack a pair of them: one would be sufficient and much more reasonable for a normal backup. I presume Burt took those simply in case of bumping into a bunch of murderous humans; after all, Mexico, far as I know, has always had more than its share of bandits. Based on that very case I don't really think there is a sidearm which would be manageable and, at the same time, worth anything against a worm. Even the most powerful bear-stoppers like .500 S&W would not, in my personal opinion, help much. Myself, I would either just forget the possibility to fight worms using a short gun — like Burt seemingly did —, or perhaps I might consider something really big, like e.g., a Magnum Research BFR revolver in .45-70 or .450 Marlin, rather (though it still is just a revolver, and, compared with a rifle, the speed and thus also penetration would suffer seriously — but who knows, a nice hand-load with a really fast powder might perhaps fix that :))
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Post by captbart on Jun 6, 2023 9:57:34 GMT -5
OC, Good comments all. I'm not sure his AR was 5.56. I thought it was an AR-10 type platform which is a .308 (7.62X51). THAT made sense to me for a Shrieker weapon. You're correct about the guide being a pompous SOB but if he wasn't a "mall ninja" and had actually hunted dangerous game I would have expected him to have more appropriate weapons. I've known a few pilots who had his kind of attitude about his skills; all 5 of them died in crashes caused by their stupid decisions. As to sidearm choice, your comment about not actually intended to be used is EXACTLY why extra ammo and a "backup, backup"(Night of the Shriekers - generator) sidearm is appropriate. I'm an old guy and I routinely have two firearms on me if I'm out of the house. The fastest reload in the known universe is a second firearm. If the situation has gotten so bad that you actually NEED your sidearm, you best have more ammo available. It is a pain (sometimes literally at my age) but it is better to have and not need than to need and not have. I don't think the Barrett was actually available for sale to the public when T2 was made. The single shots were what was available. The Grizzly is also one of the more affordable .50's. If I had a range near where I could shoot one, I might have to try to find one but recoil is more of a concern at my age (74) than it was 50 years ago. Full auto was for the screen of course and it has its uses in the real world, but it does burn through the ammo. I did like that in Night of the Shriekers, Burt changed out his .375 H&H Mag for his AR platform since a fast follow up is probably the best bet. Choice of the Barrett to replace his Grizzily is a no brainer of course but I note that the only worm Burt killed with a rifle (Taylor got the worm with the Barrett after it grabbed Burt) was in T1 when he nailed the one in his basement with a .375H&H double rifle. I agree that a .45 or higher is a better caliber but the .375 did work. I noted with approval that in Jurassic Park 2 (IIRC) the pro animal wrangle had a .45-70 lever gun for his weapon. A solid choice between weight, size and stopping power for the anticipated game. I firmly agree that anything that is living will have holes poked into it by a .50 BMG. That is an anti-tank round after all and it put holes into things. It COULD go through a target without doing IMMEDIATELY disabling damage if the animal is big enough, I guess, but I can't believe it wouldn't get the critter's attention. Thanks for reading my posts and commenting. I enjoy reading other's point of view. Excellent comments from you.
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oc
New Egg
Posts: 45
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Post by oc on Jun 6, 2023 14:56:50 GMT -5
Capt, thanks! It's really nice to have a good ole gun nut chat :) Little of that lately here... (though I hope it'll get better soon: at the beginning of July I've got my birthday, and I've already reserved a nearby range for a decent way of celebrations, as we usually do :)) I do completely agree that more ammo is always better than less ammo, and that two backup sidearms are better than one (and three better than two :)), but there's a limit of what man can drag (and move quickly if need be). And while you are completely right that more backup ammo (and/or more backup sidearms) might make the difference when you have to resort to the backup, more rifle ammo could mean you just don't have to resort to the backup at all. Which is the better option, I'd say. (Aside of losing your rifle, of course. Same-calibre rifle and sidearm might come handy in such a case; after all, far as I know, precisely for this reason people liked so much .44-40 in the Old West.) As for the .50, I have no idea how it was when they were filming T2 — perhaps even if Stampede could obtain a Barrett legally then, they might be a bit budget-constrained for that. In-story though it would make a perfect sense: given the Mexicans gave Burt even the cannon round "for his collection", they definitely should be able to obtain (and willing to pay for) a semi-auto .50. And Burt would definitely want one (or two :)) The recoil of a .50 usually is pretty mild, due to the rifle weight and the brutal muzzle brake these things tend to sport. I don't think you should fear to try one, if you got a chance. Can't speak for the old bones (not counting those of mine ;)), but we had tiny girls here shooting a Bushmaster without any problem: As for the "elephant rifle" Burt used in T1 in his basement to kill the worm, are you sure it was a .375 H&H? I actually believe it was an 8ga shotgun, which presumably stood for a real double rifle which Stampede could not obtain easily then :) (And for most watchers who don't know the difference, visually was much more impressive due its more-than-.8" calibre ;)) Even if it really stood for a .375 H&H (instead of some 400- or even 500- NE), I would argue that the penetration of .375 H&H would be considerably better than of those lesser thirties like .308; and penetration would be what counts with a Graboid, I guess. That .45-70 levergun was I think in Jurassic World. An excellent choice, and it is real pity the filmmakers stuck with the completely idiotic Hollywood rule "never could a firearm be effective against a dino", for this one in the real world definitely would make a difference. (Unlike the incredibly ludicrous 5.56's which the mercenaries — or were they real soldiers? Can't recall — brought to the super-dino hunt. Anyway even if mercs, they should not be completely stupid, but darn, the Hollywood writers are!) The much older Jurassic Park 2, far as I recall, actually sported the nicest rifle of the complete franchise, a true-blue Searcy .600 NE double, in the hands of the PH of the bad guys. (Not even he was allowed to use it effectively though, essentially for the same reasons as above; since it seemed even to Spielberg too stupid to let him miss or let the T-rex ignore the elephant-stopping round, he instead had the eco-fascist prick to sabotage his ammo. Sigh.) Thanks and all the best!
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Post by captbart on Jun 6, 2023 15:18:50 GMT -5
I based the caliber from T1 on the doubles Burt gave out in T2 which he said was an H&H. Those British doubles are EXPENSIVE! Beautiful firearms but not for the moderately wealthy; they cost REAL money! Still, Heather gave the boys a .375H&H bolt action Winchester (IIRC) in T1 so I wondered about something like a .500NE. That photo is great, by the way. That lovely young lady shooting that .50 is pure poetry. I have a .50-90 Sharps that my bride gave me for a birthday and I love that rifle. Of course, the fastest second shot known is the second barrel of a double. You and I are in complete agreement about the need for a rifle. I think it was Jeff Cooper who said the purpose of a handgun is to let your fight your way back to where you never should have left your rifle in the first place. Unfortunately, I can't always have my rifle in my hand so I carry handguns. I've always liked these conversations and there are few enough places to have such conversations. Thanks.
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Post by captbart on Oct 20, 2023 11:59:47 GMT -5
Re-reading some threats and thought to restart this thread: OC, There are multiple reasons for a sidearm beside of lack of ammo. This may belong is Real gun moments but: I decided to go pig hunting as a kid (about 12 IIRC) in the woods by Lake Houston. I had a Remington semi-auto in .22LR. I was shooting hollow points and figured I had enough gun. I learned 3 things that trip:1) a .22LR was NOT enough for a wild pig, 2)shooting a pig with too small a round REALLY annoys the pig, 3)trying to climb a tree while holding a rifle (to get away from a REALLY annoyed pig) does NOT work and you drop the rifle.
The shell deflect on that Remington held the casing from the fired round in the ejection port and jammed the rifle (that little piece of metal was immediately removed and kept to remind me of my foolishness). Since I dropped the rifle to save my backside, I couldn't clear the jam and had to watch the pig make little, tiny pig tracks all over that beautiful stock on my rifle.
So, make sure you have a backup firearm because you never know when your primary weapon may fail or why. You may loose it, you may have an ammo failure, you may have a magazine failure and what ever the reason if you don't have a backup of sufficient caliber you are UNARMED. I've been there and DID NOT LIKE IT (Earl in T1 on the rock near the end of the movie). As Scarlett O'Hara said in "GONE WITH THE WIND", "AS GOD is my witness..." OK, she said "I'll never be hungry again" but my thought is "I'll NEVER be disarmed again". Ever since that day 62 years ago, I haven't been.
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Post by Mr.ELBlanco on Oct 25, 2023 20:14:35 GMT -5
Re-reading some threats and thought to restart this thread: OC, There are multiple reasons for a sidearm beside of lack of ammo. This may belong is Real gun moments but: I decided to go pig hunting as a kid (about 12 IIRC) in the woods by Lake Houston. I had a Remington semi-auto in .22LR. I was shooting hollow points and figured I had enough gun. I learned 3 things that trip:1) a .22LR was NOT enough for a wild pig, 2)shooting a pig with too small a round REALLY annoys the pig, 3)trying to climb a tree while holding a rifle (to get away from a REALLY annoyed pig) does NOT work and you drop the rifle. The shell deflect on that Remington held the casing from the fired round in the ejection port and jammed the rifle (that little piece of metal was immediately removed and kept to remind me of my foolishness). Since I dropped the rifle to save my backside, I couldn't clear the jam and had to watch the pig make little, tiny pig tracks all over that beautiful stock on my rifle. So, make sure you have a backup firearm because you never know when your primary weapon may fail or why. You may loose it, you may have an ammo failure, you may have a magazine failure and what ever the reason if you don't have a backup of sufficient caliber you are UNARMED. I've been there and DID NOT LIKE IT (Earl in T1 on the rock near the end of the movie). As Scarlett O'Hara said in "GONE WITH THE WIND", "AS GOD is my witness..." OK, she said "I'll never be hungry again" but my thought is "I'll NEVER be disarmed again". Ever since that day 62 years ago, I haven't been. An annoyed pig is no joke, I got pushed along the ground by one once and im happy thats all I got was a scratch. I could imagine that pig was like what'd you just shoot me with?
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oc
New Egg
Posts: 45
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Post by oc on Oct 29, 2023 10:30:46 GMT -5
Capt, Absolutely! I've never argued one should not have it, quite the contrary. My only point was that it might prove impractical to bring as much ammo for the sidearm that it would limit the rifle ammo, that's all :) Thanks for a great story! I used to have a nice pic somewhere, let me see... here: (Alas no story attached; not me on the tree nor with the camera.) BTW, although of course the primary problem was of course that 22LR was NOT enough for a wild pig, another cause of grief might have been those HPs. Those critters have pretty tough skull and rib cage both, and you need some penetration. Thanks and all the best!
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Post by captbart on Oct 31, 2023 19:48:22 GMT -5
Mr. EB, you are absolutely right ... an annoyed pig is a VERY intimidating animal, especially when all its focus is on YOU!
OC, Yep, I identify with that photo! Being up a tree with no way to get down was NOT a good feeling. You are absolutely right. I learned that day to always have ENOUGH gun for the purpose at hand. Of course, seeing my grandpa pop a squirrel with a 10 GA slug and turn it into nothing but sauce was a lesson in not using too much gun. At my age then, I didn't understand then the differences between penetration and expansion. That was my first lesson in slow and heavy can be better than really fast and light weight. Along the lines of needing penetration, as a kid I heard stories from my maternal grandpa's friends (he was a Texas Ranger in the early 1900's)about Long Horn cattle. Apparently the stories you might hear about their bad attitude are true; they can be mean and aggressive. One of the old guys told of a time he got crossways with one and had to shoot it with his .45 Colt revolver. The slug hit the long horn in the head where the horn joins the skull. The round bounced off and only really ticked off the long horn. Cost the guy his horse and nearly his life. At times, the biggest you have isn't enough. If you haven't read it, "Tuckers Monstor" by S. S. Wilson, available from Amazon for Kindle or book form.
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